10-23-2006 (Parks & Recreation) Minutes Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
CITY OF WYLIE
Minutes
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
Monday, October 23, 2006 —6:30 pm
Wylie Municipal Complex— Council Chambers Conference Room
2000 Highway 78 North
CALL TO ORDER
Announce the presence of a Quorum.
Chairman Dan Chesnut called the meeting to order at 6:38 p.m. Board Members present
were: Dave Willey, Anne Hiney, Donna Larson, Brandi Lafleur, and Frankie Delgado.
Benny Jones was absent.
Staff present was: Parks Superintendent, Bill Nelson; and Assistant Parks Superintendent
Robert Diaz, and Gayle Walton, Acting Secretary.
CITIZENS PARTICIPATION
Councilman Merrill Young, residing at 200 Westgate Way, addressed the Parks and
Recreation Board and asked if updated maps are available that have all of the park
locations on it. Assistant Park Superintendent Robert Diaz stated that there is a colorized
plan available whereby all of the parks are shown. Mr. Young asked if City Council could
be provided copies of this map. Also, Mr. Young asked if the Board could give input to the
City Council regarding site locations of the new City Hall, Library and Parks and
Recreation. Mr. Young informed the Parks and Recreation Board that the National
Geographic October issue contains a very good article, (pages 98-115), regarding Parks
and it details the importance of Park land.
BUSINESS ITEMS
Board Chairman Chesnut noted that the September 25, 2006 Minutes will be considered
for approval at the November 27, 2006 Parks and Recreation Board Meeting.
1. Consider and act upon the proposed parkland dedication in the Conceptual Plan
for the Planned Development-Woodbridge Northeast. Presentation will be made by
a representative of the Herzog Development Corporation.
Representative Comments
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
Page 1
Assistant Parks Superintendent Diaz addressed the Board and stated that Mr. Don Herzog would
present this item to the Board.
Mr. Don Herzog addressed the Board and on a map outlined Alanis and Ballard Road and the
Woodbridge Development. It was noted that three parcels are under contract. Mr. Herzog outlined
on a map, a 20 foot strip of land that is out of the northwest corner in Phase XII and that this strip
of land would make a great access into the landfill (the closed landfill that is adjacent to the
property). It was also noted by Mr. Herzog that a little more land out of the park along with the
dedication would be utilized to build a road and an 8 foot trail that would link the subdivisions into
the existing Woodbridge Subdivision with access being available. Mr. Herzog stated that there is
another issue that needs to be considered. It was stated that when Alanis was built, a historical
house is on one portion of the property. Mr. Herzog stated that he has had several conversations
with the Executor of the owner's property regarding the house. Mr. Herzog stated that he had
previous conversations with the previous City Manager to talk to the Parks Board and/or the
Council to have the house possibly relocated to the downtown area as a historical house. Mr.
Herzog stated that the house has to be taken care of.
Board Member Larson asked about the location of the house that Mr. Herzog referred to. Mr.
Herzog stated that the location is on the corner of Alanis and Ballard Road.
Staff Comments
Board Member Delgado asked Mr. Herzog if the road is considered park land dedication. Mr.
Herzog stated that improvements to the existing park, would be in lieu of dedication and that being
able to build us a road and put in park trails and provide access. Mr. Herzog stated that one of the
discussions he has had with Mike Sferra, Public Services Director is perhaps at some point in time
doing some golf park and other uses, bringing water and also sanitary sewer also will be brought
in. It was noted that there is some property in the corner that isn't all landfill where there may be
some usage and another strip that is aces road and a pocket of debri where some usage could be
done. Board Member Hiney asked if there is any access from Alanis. Mr. Herzog stated that there
would be access. Board Member Delgado asked what was the comments from the Planning and
Zoning Commission and why was it denied. Mr. Herzog stated that Planning and Zoning is
recommending to Council denial due to lot sizes.
Board Member Hiney asked if the Parks and Recreation Board recommendation would change
anything. Mr. Herzog stated no that it would not but that it is needed to have in lieu of park fees
and the improvements is needed should they get the zoning go forward, Board Member Hiney
asked what is the dedication amount. It was noted to be $580,000.00. Robert Diaz stated that of
the two options presented, Option B has commercial fees with it and Option A is just residential.
Board Member Delgado stated that his concern was that the dedication was pretty substantial.
Mr. Herzog stated that there is more than just the dedication, its not just the land it is the cost of the
improvements (utilities and park trails and everything else). Mr. Delgado stated that the house
doesn't apply to the recommendations to be made by the Parks and Recreation Board. Mr.
Herzog agreed that it does not.
Chairman Chestnut asked about the cost of the roadway and the trail. Mr. Herzog stated that it is
probably in the neighborhood of$190,000 — $150,000 for the road and $40,000 for the trail and the
land value is somewhere around $25 to $35 dollars a foot — about 1400 feet. Parks
Superintendent Mr. Nelson asked if this road would all be on city property. Mr. Herzog stated that
just a portion of it would be. 20 feet would be their property that they would dedicate to the city.
There is a 20 foot strip on the land that was an access road at one time and that would add to the
factor. Mr. Nelson asked about the ROW - 40 feet or 5 feet — Mr. Herzog stated since this is all
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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city land a 27 foot street and pavement is all that would be needed. Mr. Nelson said how wide the
ROW would be. Mr. Herzog said that it wouldn't have to be a ROW, which it could be the 27 foot
strip or it could be on the city property so that it wouldn't be a dedicated ROW. Mr. Nelson asked
how many lanes. Mr. Herzog said that it would be two lanes.
Board Member Hiney asked for clarification in that the landfill is already the city property and with a
500,000.00 park dedication, the city can build a road for $150,000. Mr. Herzog said that if looked
at from the standpoint that people that are buying homes in Woodbridge; they are already paying
for pools, trails, a lot of maintenance and items that are not costing the city— that is something that
he is already providing. Mr. Herzog stated that if he has to tag on $2000 park fee per lot then he
is double dipping those folks because they are paying for the amenities they have within the
subdivision and still paying taxes and they are still going to be paying for reducing the bonds for
the rest of the city.
Board Member Delgado stated the he would argue that that they made that choice when they
moved to Woodbridge and when you want that quality of life you have to be willing to pay for it and
there are plenty of people that don't have that quality of life and they depend on the parks to make
up for those shortfalls and amenities. Board Member Delgado stated that his biggest concern is
what Board Member Hiney was saying in that half a million of dollars is a large dedication. if we
are going to be consistent with all of the developers, we ask that they either give dedication to us in
land or in funds to make up for the lands that they don't give us. Board Member Delgado further
stated that when he hear of an offer about $200,000 plus or minus a little bit for what would be a
half million worth of dedication for the parks, that's a lot and like Board Member Hiney said we can
build a road round around it a couple of times for that much funds. Board Member Delgado stated
that this road will benefit Mr. Herzog as well and that he felt that what is being offered isn't
substantial enough to make up for the short coming the city will have to take for funds.
Mr. Herzog asked if the recommendation then would be a combination of the construction and the
difference of the funds. Board Member Hiney stated that it would be more cost effective for Mr.
Herzog to do the construction while he is building everything else rather than the city to go back in
later. It was stated that there is a huge difference, give or take, between $200,000 and $500,000.
It was stated that this is a lot of money and a lot can be done with $300,000.00. Board Member
Hiney further stated that there are a lot of things that we are trying to do for the community and not
able to due to lack of funds.
Board Member Delgado asked for clarification in that Mr. Herzog will really be building on the land
fill land. Mr. Herzog stated a portion of it would be.
Board Member Larson asked for costs and Mr. Herzog stated that the approximation is $150,0000
in road and $40,000 in the trail and the land is $25,000 to $35,000 range and even at the highest,
it will be in the $200,000 range estimated and the actual dedication is $580,000.00.
Board Member Hiney asked about the two conceptual plans —Option A and Option B. Mr. Herzog
explained that the difference between the two options is that if 7.8 acres is zoned as commercial
then this would reduce the number of lots.
Board Action
Chairman Chesnut asked for a motion. Board Member Delgado made a motion to deny the
request as presented by Mr. Herzog and that Mr. Herzog for future consideration should come
back with the figures to show how we can make up the true dedication amount minus the amount
you are willing to give—actual cost versus dedication, and seconded by Board Member Willey to
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Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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deny the proposed park land dedication in the Conceptual Plan for the Planned Development-
Woodbridge Northeast. A vote was taken and passed 6-0 with Board Member Jones absent.
2. Consider and act upon the proposed changes to the athletic user and light fees,
per City Council comments.
Staff Comments
Assistant Superintendent Diaz presented proposed rates to the Board. Mr. Diaz met with the
leagues to get the average sizes of various teams —youth and adults. It was noted that the youth
teams average size was 7 to about 14 which averaged out to a size of 10 1/2 players and based on
our current rates of $4.00 per player - $42 is basically the revenue that we are bringing in now.
The average adult team range is from 10 to 20 players and that median was 16 players per team
which comes to about $64 per team rate. Mr. Diaz stated that he was basically keeping the
revenue consistent with what we basically already do and that this gives us a starting point. What
he was concerned with regarding the team fee is having a youth and adult amount.
Board Action
Board Member Delgado asked what is the amount that staff is trying to recoup and he also stated
that consideration should be given to rates based on teams rather than players because he felt
rates based on teams would hurt the small teams with fewer players than the larger teams with
more players. Mr. Diaz stated that this is something to consider and it was a concern of staff and
that an arbitrary team rate could be given; but staff was not given any direction at the last meeting
as to how much money to bring in for youth fees. Revenues are very important although so we
don't want to lose money and the proposed rates are similar to what is currently being used. Board
Member Delgado stated that he feels it is fair to have rates per player than per team so that the
smaller teams don't have to subsidize for the larger team.
Board Member Willey stated that $23,000.00 was close to the 50% mark on the electric rate cost,
manpower, etc. Chairman Chesnut asked for clarification in that the first proposed increase rate
was $13 and now the proposed rate has been updated to $18.00. Mr. Diaz stated when they
started this process $13 increase was the latest number and the direction of Council was to check
the latest numbers and now$18 is the latest numbers.
Chairman Chesnut suggested that the player fee remains the same and the electric fee be
increased and that the difference is only 1000.00. Board Member Delgado stated that inflation
needs to be considered as well. Discussion followed regarding the difference in rates. Mr. Diaz
stated that electric rates have increased 44%. It was noted also that the proposed rates can be
adjusted. Board Member Wiley stated that the discussion of rates have been going on for almost
a year now and the gist of the proposed rates are team and player rates and that he felt that the
proposed rates are fair. Board Member Hiney asked that in order to meet the 50% that Council
asked, if$18 would meet this. Mr. Dias stated that this is correct and that it would.
Board Action
Board Member Hiney moved that the original recommendation of $5 and $10 but that the electric
rates be increased to $18.00 to meet the 50% recovery that we were asked to by Council. David
Willey seconded. The vote passed 6-0 with Board Member Jones absent.
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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DISCUSSION ITEMS
3. Staff updates:
• Planning and Zoning/Parks and Recreation Board Coordination.
Staff/Board Discussion
Assistant Parks Superintendent Diaz addressed the Board. Renae 011ie is the Planning and
Zoning Director and staff met with her to discuss the joint meeting. The Board had asked in the
September meeting where the Board stands on certain issues. Mrs. 011ie looked at the
subdivision rules and regulations and forwarded an email that answered the questions that the
Board has raised. Mrs. 011ie looked at what the authority of what the Park Board has and the
steps or processes questions which came out of the joint meeting, in that a "checks and balances"
kind of order is needed to look at the process of development.
Mr. Diaz explained Section 2.3(E) — "concept plan once deemed complete and technically accurate
by City Staff shall be reviewed by the Commission at the earliest meeting" means that until Park
Board reviews the plans, it is not complete. Park land dedication issues have to come before the
Park Board prior to going to the next level — Planning and Zoning Meeting. Comments from the
Park Board would go to Planning and Zoning and they would review those comments and then it
would go to Council. Planning and Zoning would head up the process.
Board Member Delgado asked if currently and in the past the required review process was not
correctly done. Mr. Diaz stated that it was due to timing because the rules were already in place.
Mr. Delgado asked if this means that the Board would have to meet more often. Mr. Diaz stated
that it would depend on requests from the developers if special meetings would have to be called.
Planning and Zoning would like to see Park Board comments before they proceed. Mr. Diaz noted
that Mrs. 011ie has stated that "No where in the subdivision regulations or zoning ordinance have I
found that Planning and Zoning can override decisions made by the Park Board in relations to Park
Land dedication." Once Park Board comments are presented to Planning and Zoning, they will
make their recommendation also and both of these recommendations will be presented to Council.
Mr. Diaz explained the term "denied with prejudice" as when an item is denied by Council, a super
majority vote of Council has to approve the item. If Council also "denies with prejudice", then the
developer will have to wait one year to bring this item back, unless it has substantial changes to it.
The developer can not bring back the same plan. Planning and Zoning would have to decided
what is the substantial change. Mr. Diaz stated that a developer can present their item to the Park
Board and still have time to present their item to Planning and Zoning since they meet twice a
month and then have their items presented to Council within a timely period of time.
• Collin County Grant Application Status
Staff/Board Discussion
Parks Superintendent Bill Nelson addressed the Board regarding the grant that will be received by
Mr. Jerry Hoagland, Collin County Commissioner. Mr. Hoagland will present a check to Council in
the amount of$163,238.00.
• Construction status on basketball courts, Olde City Park and Joel Scott Park.
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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Staff/Board Discussion
Parks Superintendent Bill Nelson gave a brief outline/update of the basketball courts.
• Community Park: Concrete contractor will be getting started this week on the two courts at
Community Park— one will be to the north of the playground (north of where the batting cages
use to be) and the other will be to the east of the playground picnic pavilion.
• Eureka Park basketball court would be to the south of the playground.
• Pritchard Park has already been platted out and the basketball court would be to the south
of the picnic pavilion.
• Lakeside Park basketball court would be to the north end of the park but to the east of the
soccer field.
Board Member Hiney asked about a field trip for possible sites of skateboard parks. Mr. Nelson
stated that staff will be looking at possible sites.
• Olde City Park — picnic pavilion is basically completed. Concrete contractor poured
sidewalks will be poured today. Mr. Nelson stated that they will also try to get some curb
and gutters and bidding in the near future will be for irrigation at Olde City Park and at Joel
Scott Park and tree planting at Joel Scott Park.
Board Member Larson asked how many basketball courts will be put in — Mr. Nelson stated five (5)
and noted that basketball goals have been ordered.
Olde City Park — nothing has been heard from the railroad regarding the land. Board Member
LaFleur noted that First Baptist has received theirs. Mr. Diaz stated that we are behind them.
• Muddy Creek Trail dedication ceremony— November 9, 2006.
Staff/Board Discussion
Mr. Nelson asked if everyone received muddy creek parkland dedication invitation for November 9.
Sachse will be at 10:00 and Wylie will be at 10:45. It was noted that parking will be tight due to the
number of attendance with county officials also being in attendance. Mr. Diaz will coordinate the
use of the City van for the park board members to attend the dedication.
• Regional TRAPS conference — November 10, 2006
Staff/Board Discussion
Board members were asked if they would be attending the TRAPS conference. Registration has
been extended to October 27, 2006. Board Member Larson would be attending this conference.
Board Member Hiney stated that she will be attending the Grapevine Texas Trail Conference.
• Architect meeting with City Council — November 2, 2006
Staff/Board Discussion
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Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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Mr. Diaz noted that there will be an architectural meeting with Council on Thursday, November 2.
Mr. Diaz apologized that he was not in the loop of exactly what was going on but wanted to inform
the Parks Board of the November 2 meeting. Board Member Hiney asked if staff has met with the
architect.
Mr. Diaz stated that he has met with the architects of the buildings but that it did not have anything
to do with site location. Chairman Chesnut and Board Member Hiney were in attendance at the
joint work session with the architect on October 12, 2006 and gave a brief synopsis of the work
session. Chairman Chesnut stated that the land that he thought we had from the developer for the
pond, we do not have anymore. He stated that he did not realize it. Board Member Hiney stated
that we do have part of it. It was stated that we started out with 253 acres that we purchased and
the 50 acre piece adjacent to it has a little connector around the bottom of the pond and opens up
on the east side of the pond and the west side of the pond which we thought they had given —they
didn't.
Chairman Chesnut stated that the whole concept of the November 2 meeting is that the whole cost
factor will be discussed. Upon talking to a couple of people, the land on the other side of 1378 is
more of an appealing area to place such a thing because you have everything right there for you.
Chairman Chesnut stated that he didn't realize that at the work session that questions couldn't be
asked. If he could, there was plenty that he wanted to ask. Chairman Chesnut gave a brief
synopsis of the sites selected by Council and that Council had asked about the cost. It was also
stated that he had the understanding that there was no Comp Plan for the land and that a site
could be announced but before it was actually put into motion, a confirmed Comp Plan must be
outlined.
Board Member Delgado stated that his biggest fear is that the land will be squandered. Chairman
Chesnut stated that a lot of input has to be heard from the public and the parks board. The
minutes of the Council joint work session on October 12, 2006 with the attached plans were made
available for the Park Board to review. The plans that council wanted to keep was reviewed by the
Park Board. Council Member Young reviewed the plans with the Park Board. Council Member
Young stated that acreage cost was not brought up and needs to be addressed.
Board Member Hiney stated that this is one of the things that she would like to address — at the
joint meeting regarding the Comp Plan with Carter Burgess and it was stated that we needed to
acquire at least 200 acres by 2011 to meet our projective growth 35,000 plus which we felt that we
would surpass. We have already bypassed that number which was given 4 years ago and we set
guidelines for park land and it is being built on and if we don't set out and secure some park land
now, it will be gone. Board Member Hiney also stated that proposals were received for the sole
purpose to help communities secure parks and open space. It was noted that the Wells family was
contacted on the basis of parks and open space and the property was sold to us at a much lower
price than they would have gotten from a developer. Purchase of the 253 acres was for parks and
open space. Board Member Hiney also stated that she will address Council at their October 24
meeting during Citizens Participation and will read the city's press release and the mayor's quotes
regarding securing this park land. Board Member Hiney stated that she would like to remind
Council that this is what we set out to do and that she recognizes that we need the facilities but at
the same time we don't have the money to buy more park land when in 5 years we will have
exceeded our growth again. It was noted that we have to take some steps to protect as much of
this as we can. Board Member Delgado stated that he can go beyond that, that it is a matter of
integrity. Because of the whole purpose of the Wells family negotiating with the Trust For Public
Land was park land. Board Member Larson concurred. An Open Records Request was
completed by Board Member Hiney requesting a copy of the Wells Family Deed and all pertaining
correspondence and communications.
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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Chairman Chesnut stated that the site/concept maps presented to Council were all discussed on
where to put all three buildings, ball fields, soccer fields and parking lot. He stated that the concept
of the baseball and soccer fields on this property were just an idea. Mr. Diaz stated that the site
maps presented are concepts. The ball fields were brought up and he felt the buildings should be
the focus. Chairman Chesnut stated that Site Map A-2 to him is the best place for everything to be
placed but he felt that it was not considered because of the parking issue and pedestrian walkway
that shouldn't have been the key. It was noted that a master plan of the Wells property should be
completed. Board Member Delgado stated that we are putting the cart before horse. Chairman
Chesnut stated that he never heard anyone ask about how much acreage it will take. Board
Member Hiney stated that this doesn't even include the "higher education" building that the Mayor
had mentioned. Chairman Chesnut stated that he agreed with Councilman Newsom in that we
shouldn't worry about DART. Board Member Hiney agreed that the proposed building location
should not be based on where DART is going to build. Board members concurred.
Councilman Young spoke in that when he thinks of Parks and Recreation, he always felt that
recreation was situated with Parks. It was noted that we need to find out how much acreage is
involved. Chairman Chesnut stated that in his talks with the previous city manager, it was stated
that building on the other side of 1378, would be more cost effective, easy access in and out for the
public for these facilities.
Board members reviewed the site selection maps that were presented to Council by Architexas.
Councilman Young asked how long it would be to complete a master plan and the cost. Mr.
Nelson stated 60-90 days and the initial amount in the budget was $50,000.00 which was not
approved but $15,000.00 was approved. Councilman Young stated that he is concerned that
things are getting rushed and will try to get Council to not rush at the October 24, 2006 Council
meeting. Councilman Young stated that the Council is locked in saving money because of the
escalating cost. Chairman Chesnut asked if other board members could attend the October 24,
2006 Council Meeting in support of Board Member Hiney who will address Council. Mr. Diaz
stated that City's 120t Anniversary would also be addressed at the Council Meeting.
• Parks and Recreation Board Retreat/Planning Meeting
Staff/Board Discussion
Mr. Diaz has asked Board to think about a retreat on a Saturday — a half day or all day. Board
Member Hiney asked if the Board could set goals and complete one project a year. It was noted
that the Parks Board need to be more proactive and take a more active role. Chairman Chesnut
asked about meeting two times a month to stay abreast of things and that even though the board is
an advisory board, the boards input is important and is needed. Also, it was noted that more
communication is needed with the City Manager and Council.
• Winter meeting dates: November 27 and December 18
Staff/Board Discussion
Park Board members agreed on the meeting dates of Monday, November 27, 2006 and Monday
December 18, 2006.
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
Page 8
ADJOURNMENT
A motion was made by Board Member Hiney and seconded by Board Member Delgado to adjourn.
Board adjourned at 8:32 p.m.
4n Chesnut, Chairman
ATTEST:
Gayle Walton,Acting Secretary
Minutes—October 23, 2006
Wylie Parks and Recreation Board
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